True to Yourself Podcast 20: Nature's Medicine to Get Spiritually Grounded with Emma Loewe

This month here on the True to Yourself Podcast, we've been talking about getting spiritually grounded. This means being able to say yes to the experiences and relationships that support you and no to those that don't. Having this power means cultivating the courage to go inward, developing balance and grounded-ness from within. One of the most powerful ways I know of to cultivate stability is via grounding activities to connect with nature's medicine.

Today, I'm joined by the wonderful Emma Loewe about her new book: Return to Nature: The New Science of How Natural Landscapes Restore Us. 

Emma takes us on a journey through eight different landscapes, like deserts and dry lands, oceans and coasts, and ice and snow, and shares insights gathered from science, personal experience, and interviews. She shows us how each place is unique in the way it uplifts and supports life. 

When we lean into what nature can share, we discover so much more than just desolate deserts or frozen ground. We discover our deepest roots.

Resources:

About Emma: Emma Loewe is an editor and author based in New York City. She is the Health & Sustainability Director at mindbodygreen.com, the author of "Return to Nature: The New Science of How Natural Landscapes Restore Us," and the co-author of "The Spirit Almanac: A Modern Guide To Ancient Self Care."

Her writing explores the intersection of nature, human health, and climate activism and has appeared in Grist, Bloomberg News, and Bustle, among others. Emma received her B.A. in Environmental Science & Policy with a specialty in environmental communications from Duke University.

Learn more about Emma Loewe, Health & Sustainability Director at mindbodygreen.com, and check out her book: https://amzn.to/41rOMHp

TheAncientWay.co is an Amazon Association, and may earn a commission for your book purchase made through our affiliate link in this description. There is no additional cost to you and your purchase supports us in furthering our mission of serving as a bridge between ancient wisdom and modern living.

Take your first step to take ownership of your destiny and make new spiritual friends while nourishing your body, mind and spirit with a wealth of grounding activities, recipes, and much more in a free 14-day trial of The Ancient Way's Circle of Life Community: https://theancientway.co/community

Embrace your true Self with the wisdom of the ages by joining The Ancient Way's Wisdom 1-2-3 Newsletter at https://theancientway.co/wisdom-1-2-3 for:

• 1 wisdom quote straight from an age-old sacred text

• 2 nuggets of inspiration from me, to make that wisdom relatable

• 3 introspective questions to awaken your inner guru, no matter how packed your schedule is

Let's connect on Instagram for spiritual empowerment and inspiration to awaken your inner guru: https://instagram.com/ananta.one

Embark on a heroic spiritual journey with daily rituals rooted in ancient Indian goddess wisdom in my award-winning book The Way of the Goddess: https://theancientway.co/wayofthegoddess

Live in harmony with nature, embody ancient wisdom & glow with radiant well-being - become an Ancient Way Wellness Ambassador: https://theancientway.co/wellness-ambassador

Ignite the fire within & empower others on transformative journeys - become an Ancient Way & Association for Coaching Certified Spiritual Coach: https://theancientway.co/spiritualwarrior

By tuning into this Podcast, I acknowledge that the entire contents of it are the intellectual property of Ananta Ripa Ajmera, or used by her with permission. They are protected under U.S. and international copyright and trademark laws. Except as otherwise provided herein, listeners to this Podcast may use and apply information found in the Podcast only for personal, non-commercial, educational purposes. No other use, including, without limitation, editing, reproduction, or retransmission, of this Podcast can be made without taking prior written permission of Ananta Ripa Ajmera. You can request permission by emailing info@theancientway.co.

This podcast is for educational purposes only. The host claims no responsibility to any person or entity for any liability, medical condition, loss or harm caused or said to be caused directly or indirectly by the use, application or interpretation of the content presented herein.

TRANSCRIPTION

Episode 20: Nature's Medicine for Stability with Emma Loewe

Ananta: Okay, so welcome back to the True to Yourself Podcast. My name is Ananta, and I am so happy to explore with you the power of authentic living. Today, we have a very special guest, Emma Lowe. Emma is an editor and author based in New York City. She is the Health and Sustainability director at mindbodygreen.com, the author of Return to Nature: The New Science of How Natural Landscapes Restore Us. And the coauthor of The Spirit Almanac, a Modern Guide to Ancient Self-Care. Her writing explores the intersection of nature, human health, and climate activism, and has appeared in Grist, Bloomberg News, and Bustle, among others. Emma received her BA in Environmental Science and Policy with a specialty in Environmental Communications from Duke University.

Ananta: Welcome, Emma, officially, to the podcast.

Emma: Thanks so much for having me. I'm happy to be here.

Ananta: It's such a pleasure to have you, and I would love to just begin by asking you about a time in your life when you were true to yourself and how it altered or changed the course of your life forever from there.

Emma: Yeah, absolutely. So, I love this question because, you know, it really allows me to get a bit reflective, which I sometimes need a push to do. So, I loved thinking about it. Um, and I think for me, the first sort of answer that came up is just, um, in my career, you know, when I was first getting started out of college, I sort of didn't know what I wanted to do.

A lot of my friends were going into, you know, various fields, like financial fields and just sort of like more, you know, mainstream, you know, post-college fields. But, um, I, growing up, both of my parents were journalists, so I always was just surrounded by words and by writing, and I think there was something in me that just really wanted to explore that.

So, decided to go against the grain and, you know, become a writer. Which, you know, is definitely a difficult path to take. But I'm so grateful that I did because it really led me to meet so many incredible people and have the opportunity to just learn a ton about a ton of different things. So, I'm very grateful.

Ananta: Wow, that's amazing. And that's so amazing that you've also been able to incorporate your love of environmentalism into your writing. So, tell us a little bit about the journey of writing your amazing book, the Return to Nature. Which I have here with me.

Emma: Yeah. So, Return to Nature, um… I should back up a bit.

So, at Mind Body Green, which for those who are unfamiliar, it's a health and wellness publication, but it takes a pretty holistic, you know, wide-ranging view on what it means to be healthy. So, you know, we would also consider living a life that is, you know, gentle on the planet to be a healthier way of living.

Um, so at Mind Body Green, I've been there for about… eight, going on eight years now. Um, and I've done a lot of reporting just about that sort of intersection of sustainability and human health, and I think it's just such a fascinating, you know, space to be in. And over the years when I've, you know, chatted with a bunch of different types of experts in environmentalism, you know, activists, researchers, um, all the, all the sort, you know, I tend to ask people a lot about, you know, what first that got them into the field, what first got them interested in the work that they're doing.

And I found that a lot of people could really point to an experience that they had had out in nature that was just really, you know, touch them and sort of inspired them to take more action to protect their environment. And then, you know, went on to do these crazy brilliant, amazing things. Um, so I was inspired to put out a resource that just helped people get outside more and just, you know, through that lens, you know, disconnect to the world around them and really question how they were helping this world in return that's, you know, given them so much.

Um, so that was sort of the lens that I approached the book with. Um, and it's divided into eight different chapters. Each chapter is a different landscape. So, think, you know, beaches, mountains, forest. Um, and it sort of gives some ex or an explanation of why being out in that place is so good for us, just on, you know, a physical and mental level.

Emma: Um, but then it also provides, you know, rituals that people can do in these spaces to really connect to the environment. And then finally it provides actions that people can take to, you know, protect that, that landscape moving forward. So, it's kind of a fun culmination of all my interests.

Ananta: Yeah, that's so inspiring and amazing that you've been able to go so deep into all of these things and how your work is also supporting you to be an environmental activist in the unique way that you're doing it.

And what I loved so much about your book as an Ayurveda practitioner is that we have this principle in Ayurveda of the fundamental unity between the individual (which is the microcosm) and the universe or the world outside of us (which is considered the macrocosm). We believe that we are one and the same as the natural world, and that our body and mind is constituted of the same five great elements that we find in nature.

So, anything we want to learn or uncover about ourselves, we can look to the natural world to teach us or to help us tune into within ourselves. So, I love how you have also created a bridge, I feel, through your book, for people to really see how they can also connect with these various landscapes as a way to deepen their own experiences and their own healing in different ways in different, uh, need states, if you will, that people have. Including dealing with trauma, which I think came up in the Oceans and Coasts chapter, where it deals with the subconscious. And I just found it so, so fascinating how you're connecting the human development journey with the natural world. Could you speak a little bit about that?

Emma: Yeah, definitely. I mean, I think there's so much to unpack there, and I feel like your book does a beautiful job of doing that too. I have it right here. It's so beautiful.

Ananta: Thank you.

Emma: Um, but yeah, I feel like there are just so many, you know, different parallels that can be drawn. You know, both, as you mentioned, from an Ayurvedic perspective, I think from a climate perspective it's, well, it's interesting to consider, you know, this idea that we're sort of, you know, polluting the planet that we live on and just drawing parallels between like, how is doing something like that also harming our own health in turn, and just finding where those connections sort of, you know, lie. Whether it be, you know, air pollution, which also comes back to, you know, the air that we breathe and makes us, you know, more susceptible to certain diseases.

Um, so I really don't think you can disentangle that connection. And, you know, for better or worse, I think that the whole point of, you know, writing this book was also just to show people that, you know, getting out into nature and really embracing this reciprocal relationship that we always have with the world around us can be so healing.

Um, and I think there's real power in just going back to that.

Ananta: Yeah. Yeah, definitely. And you talked about a really interesting study, I think with the oceans and coasts around how, I think, like scuba diving or something like that. Surfing maybe was an activity that was recommended for people to overcome, like fears related to trauma.

Mm-hmm. Could—I thought that was so interesting—could you highlight that story a little bit more for us?

Emma: Yeah, definitely. So, that, I believe it was a study, um, done—well, there are a few different things. I mean, so, surf therapy in general is sort of this idea of yes, using surfing as a vehicle to like connect with the ocean. And it's typically, you know, done by folks who are just learning to surf for the first time.

And you know, there's obviously a fair amount of like fear and, you know, getting out the waves in that sort of new way. Um, but you know, what sort of therapist practitioners are finding is that by overcoming that fear and really learning to like, sort of dance with that, you know, unknown if you will, it's also helping people overcome issues like trauma.

So, I talked with one practitioner who works specifically with, um, sexual abuse advisors. Or, I'm sorry, survivors and brings someone onto the surfboard and sort of lets them, you know, have that sort of moment of almost like conquering fear and conquering what lies beneath. Um, and just finding that really empowering across all aspects of their lives.

Emma: So, I think it's interesting to consider it. I'm sure it isn't just, you know, something that happens with surfing. I think any sort of, you know, conquering of fear while you're outdoors in a natural environment can just be so, so healing.

Ananta: Yeah. That's so amazing. Really, really interesting. I also found it really interesting how you mentioned about, I believe it was the Deserts and Drylands being a space in which you can expand your perspective and your horizons, because you literally just see nothing but broad nature for miles and miles, and what that does for the human brain and creativity and things like that. That was really interesting. Because I never, ever would've thought of a desert as being a place to inspire creativity. Can you share a little bit about that?

Emma: Yeah, absolutely. So, I love writing that chapter too, because I feel like I didn't grow up in a desert environment and it's not a place that I necessarily feel comfortable in.

Like, it just feels kind of unfamiliar to me. So, it was fun to lean into like, okay, what does this landscape, you know, have to offer and what can be really found there? Um, and the creativity component. I learned about that when I was interviewing a neuroscientist who was talking about this idea that, you know, when we're sort of stumped on a mental problem, if you think about it, like a lot of times—I'm demonstrating people can't see—but you'll like inherently look at like a blank wall or, you know, a white open space.

And it's sort of a way that our brains intuitively know to like, clear the mind, so to speak. You're sort of just, you know, tuning out outward distractions so you can focus on the task at hand. Um, and so by that principle, you know, it's looking out onto a vast horizon can actually like really open up our mental capacity to like come to creative solutions and draw new, you know, parallels between things, which I thought was super cool.

And you know, again, that can happen in different landscapes, but I think the desert really provides a unique opportunity just because it does tend to be flat, open, have that like expansive sky overhead. Um, so that was sort of a fun thing to think about. But you know, wherever you live, if you have a moment and you feel a little stumped on a problem, I think I would, yeah, I would recommend just looking outside and looking at, you know, the skyline or just, you know, an open, an open view and seeing if it helps.

Ananta: I love that. Yeah. I love how your book gives these ideas of what kind of benefits you can derive out of all different kinds of landscapes, including city parks and gardens, and then how to cultivate that connection wherever you live, regardless of whether you are even close to such places. I thought that was really unique and really amazing in terms of deepening and cultivating our connection with nature, even if we're not able to visit or be close to all these different parts of the world.

And just, you know, like I, for example, grew up in Toledo, Ohio, which is in the Midwest of the United States, where it's really cold in the winter. And it snows a lot, and we have ice and snow, and you know, sleet and all of that. And it's fun like when it snows on Christmas Day and stuff like that, and you see like the white color covering everything and then it's like, oh my gosh.

And then it's all brown because of it mixing with the sleet and it just becomes kind of gross and uninspiring. So, I've kind of written a narrative in my head that like, I don't really like the snow. I'm not really interested in ice. I would rather avoid it, you know, and it's kind of like uncomfortable. But then, you know, reading your book gave me a new idea about how to look at it and how to see the opportunity inherent in it.

So, could you share a little bit about that landscape and how we can work with it?

Emma: Yeah, I love that it's changed your perspective. That makes me so happy. Um, I'm so with you. I mean, I think that snow is just something that, you know, either you love it or you don't love it as much and it can be difficult to, you know, continue to get outside and enjoy nature when it is really snowy and cold and, you know, kind of miserable.

Um, so, again, I thought, you know, how can I, you know, explore this in a unique way that people maybe might not have thought about before? And you know, one sort of idea that came to me was just the sounds of silence, basically, that, you know, find us when, after it snows. And exploring how that can actually be a really positive, you know, force of good. Especially if you're like me and live in a city that is just always noisy and sort of cortisol-level raising and et cetera.

Um, so that was a really fun chapter to write. I got to speak with, um, some really interesting people who actually study, you know, acoustics and sound and, you know, think about day in and day out, how the sounds of nature impact us. Um, and this idea of silence came up like again and again.

And, you know, I think that. It became increasingly clear as I was speaking to them that they sort of see silence almost as like an endangered resource. Like it's something that you actually can't find as much of in this day and age. So, when you do have access to like a quiet, calm environment, like say after a snowfall, it's really a beautiful opportunity to like, get outside and just sort of relish in that silence. And maybe have a meditative moment or connect some sort of ritual that helps you really feel into that, that sense of calm.

So, I liked that reframing. I wouldn't say I'm like a huge winter buff, but I'm working on it, you know. I'm trying to really embrace winter for what it is.

Ananta: Wow. Well, I loved it also because I have such a personal connection with silence as a spiritual practice that I recommend in my book The Way of the Goddess. And I've even got a whole chapter dedicated basically to silence as the foundation for conscious speech, and as a foundation for healing because it invites you inward to really feel your emotions and to acknowledge them as a catalyst for healing and transformation. So, due to that love of silence, I feel that's what really inspired me to look at snow as a different, uh, as giving us a different opportunity to really cultivate something that is very important to me. So, I love that. Perspective on it. It's so interesting.

Emma: Yeah, and I think it's so interesting too because as I was working in the book, I don't remember the exact stat that I came across and I don't want to butcher it, but just the idea that silence is so uncomfortable for so many people. And you know, they've done studies about, you know, putting people in a room and asking them to sit quietly. And just sort of like the reactions that people have are so much more extreme than I would think,

Ananta: Uh-huh.

Emma: It's really a skill worth cultivating, you know, including, you know, you give some great examples of how to do that in your book, but just sitting in silence, I think, is a beautiful practice.

Ananta: Yeah. Yeah. I feel like we need some guidance on how to be with the silence in order for it to be an invitation for healing and for growth and transformation.

Just it by itself can be too much for a lot of people, but, uh… But once we know that, once we have developed some kind of a practice to work with silence, then I feel there's so many opportunities that that space of silence really gives us to give birth to a new reality, and to really know ourselves on a deeper level.

And that's kind of like, you know, like metaphorically, I feel the winter season is like that hibernation period. Like that going deep within, in order to uncover the greatest treasure. And it's almost like the dark night of the soul, right? Because it's even darker for most of the day during the winter.

And so, it's a time to really go deep into that in order to find the light then, which is like the spring season unfolding. So, it's really, uh, it's, it's interesting, and it's important. It may be hard at times, but it ultimately leads to a greater appreciation of that rebirth that spring gives us. And that we can experience even through the emergence from silence through our speech.

So, I think there's a lot there that's really fascinating.

Emma: and I love that parallel too. Snow sort of helping us on the journey to get quiet. It's quieting things down for us outside.

Ananta: Yeah, yeah, exactly. Exactly. It's so, so cool. Well, and speaking of the spring season, I love that you start this book with the parks and gardens.

Can you talk to us about how we can connect with them? I mean, I know we all probably love gardens with flowers and everything, but, uh, especially in a big city. What, how can people cultivate that spiritual connection with nature through the parks and gardens, even if they're small?

Emma: Yeah, absolutely. So, I think that, you know, a lot of times, I know I'm super guilty of doing this to, you know, folks who live maybe in a city environment sort of feel like they can't necessarily like connect with nature unless they leave their immediate environment and go off to some like grand, you know, mountain trail or forest or what have you.

Um, And I think in the process of writing this book and, you know, speaking with various experts across, you know, the scientific fields, but also just more sort of people who have deeply spiritual connections with nature. And I found that it can really, you can have that experience on like a much more small scale or much zoomed in scale.

Like, you don't need that vast, you know, prairie. Just sort of a pocket park or, you know, something like that will do. Um, I think it really is just a matter of the perspective that we go into it with. Um, you know, I—there's just all this fascinating research that finds that, you know, we are inherently more like calm and more at ease.

Our heart rate, our heart rate slows, our blood pressure drops when we are… we feel like we're immersed in a natural environment. Um, so I think it's just a matter of focusing your intention on the nature that you do have. You know, one example just from where, you know, I'm based—I'm in New York City. The view from my window is, you know, mostly looking out onto other apartment buildings, but I can see a tiny sliver of a park.

Um, you know, outside of my front window. And so, whenever I'm sort of feeling stressed, overwhelmed at work or just, you know, things inside are stressing me out and I'd rather not be inside, rather be outside, um, I just look out and focus my attention on that little patch of green. And, you know, anecdotally, I've just found it to be very, very helpful for me.

Um, and so I think that just really, you know, approaching your environment with appreciation for what you do have, and also looking out for like new opportunities to engage with a place in a new way… um, there's this—it's probably my favorite study that I mentioned in the book—but it's a study that basically they found that when people go out onto a walk, when they're adopting a new perspective, so.

An example would be, you know, heading out, pretending that you're a painter, looking out for your next, the next color you want to use in one of your pieces of art or a poet looking for your next muse to write about, or something like that. When you go out into a natural environment with that sort of, you know, lens, it can actually open you up to have an even more like restorative and relaxing experience in that place.

And it can also help you see your native environment in a new way. So, I think that's just a really fun idea of, you know, thinking about how can I see the places that I walk through every single day with a new lens each time, and sort of open myself up to awe and, you know, new discoveries in the same old place.

Um, so yeah.

Ananta: I love that. Yeah. Yeah. And in chapter eight of my book, I talk about embracing new beginnings and this… cultivating this sense of wonderment in life and seeing things with fresh new eyes that are informed by the knowledge you gained from the spiritual journey. So, I totally resonate with that and think that it's such a great practice. And I think you talked a lot about the importance of that emotion of awe and what it does for our mental health, too. Can you share a little bit about that?

Emma: Yeah, absolutely. So, awe is just a super fascinating emotion, and it's the source of a lot of research right now in the positive psychology space. And you know the reason why it seems to be, yeah, it's super cool. A lot of it is going on out of, I believe, Berkeley is like sort of a big hub for it, but.

Ananta: Makes sense.

Emma: Yeah, exactly. Um, but the reason that it seems to be so unique is, you know, all is sort of that feeling that we get when we're faced with something that we perceive as being very vast.

Emma: So, I think, you know, textbook example is like standing at the base of a mountain or at the top of a mountain, or I talk about it a lot in the mountain chapter, but you know, we can also feel it when we're listening to really beautiful transportive music or looking at a piece of art that sort of changes, you know, our perspective.

Um, and what researchers are finding is that by sort of… awe basically makes us feel like small. And in doing so, it opens up our view of the world, um, and in the process actually makes us more, feel like we have more time to spend on the things that we love, essentially. So, it makes us just sort of zoom out in more ways than one.

Um, which I think is incredibly, you know, beneficial. Um, so yeah, awe is something that I think a lot of us could use more of. And, you know, nature is, is a wonderful place to get it. Um, I know this one researcher is really incredible. His name's Dacher Keltner and he encourages people to take what he calls.

"Awe walks." So, again, it's sort of just, again, this idea that, you know, you're heading out with the intention of seeing something new and something that opens your mind up to, you know, a new sort of experience. So, I love that idea of like infusing just the, you know, feeling into your capacity to find awe in the everyday and really leaning into that for the sake of your health, your creativity, all that good stuff.

Ananta: Yeah. Yeah. That's so fascinating about what you said on how awe gives you an increased sense of the time that you have. I mean, that in itself is so remarkable in a day and age where it feels like our lives are moving so fast.

Emma: Yeah, absolutely. And I can, if I can share one, like really cool sort of tidbit about this.

So, there's actually this one study that they did on awe, where essentially they like were perched on, in like the parking lot area of a national park. And then they also were perched on, um, I believe, it was a mountain. So, like the parking lot, and then at the top of the mountain, let's say. Um, and they asked people to either to fill out like a survey at both spots.

And then also they as a thank you for filling out the survey. Let's see if I can remember this correctly. They gave them a bag of trail mix or also presented an opportunity to make their own trail mix this.

Ananta: Okay?

Emma: And so, they found that in the parking lot environment, people A), took the survey less and B), like if they did, only took the trail mix and didn't make their own.

But at the top, they were more willing to take the survey again because they felt like they had more time to spend. And they were also more willing to make their own trail mix for sure gets at the creativity component. So, I don't know, that's just the study that stuck with me too. But, you know, I think it feels—

You know, I can see myself in that situation in the parking lot thinking like, oh, I don't have time to fill out this survey. I have to, you know, go do this, this, and this. But, you know, I think when we do feel like we are, you know, fully immersed in nature, there is something in us that, you know, says, "Ugh, you know, whatever I had to do doesn't matter when we just be in the present moment and, you know, do what I have to do."

So, I loved that, that idea.

Ananta: Yeah. That's so inspiring. I love that practice idea too, of just going for a walk with an intention to find some element of nature that resonates with us or connects with us. I know something I really enjoy doing is also in Florida, because we have quite a bit of different animals.

Also, where I live. I live at a nature preserve. And I'm constantly seeing different animals, but some reoccurring ones every day. While I've lived in Florida, I believe I've seen a lizard, and there's an amazing resource by a friend of mine named Allison Charles called Animal Power, which is a book that teaches you the meaning of the symbols of animals and what they represent for your life.

So, I just find it so fascinating now to kind of like see all of these creatures as teachers, you know, of something or some metaphor that is important in my life. And I talk about that as a practice too, in The Way of the Goddess about seeing what signs and symbols are reoccurring, you know, and understanding the meaning of them even in your dreams.

Like if certain animals are coming, or even natural landscapes. I feel like now, you know, your book is like decoding what do these natural landscapes stand for, you know, in such an interesting way. And I also love how you have even summarized the chapters also by different keywords or key concepts and themes.

I think that's really, really interesting in itself because it gives you a clue as to how you can benefit from the different types of natural environments. So, you had talked about community mindfulness and discovery in the parks and gardens, which is so amazing. And then I love how you've characterized the oceans and coasts as being… I'll just see and remember what the words were… as

"Memory, relaxation, and surrender." And that's like really big. I actually moved to Florida at the beginning of this year because I felt spiritually called to be closer to nature after writing my own book, which it has a lot of memoirs and personal stories. And I just felt that, wow, when this comes out, I feel like I want to be close to nature and just experience that surrender to the natural world. That—I do agree that oceans and coasts really bring about more so than any other, uh, natural environment. And they really give that feeling of like, relaxation too. When you go and walk by the ocean and hear those rhythms, it's like how we were in the womb. It's like going into the womb of the divine being.

And I just feel that now I can understand more scientifically how that's working and through the themes that you were talking about. And also, how it can bring up a little bit of fear too, because water can be so unpredictable. Just like our emotions can be so unpredictable and it can be a little bit like, "oh my gosh, you know, like,

What's going to happen now?" Kind of thing. Especially when they, the water builds up, and it's, you know, storming and things like that. So, I found that so, so interesting in terms of the spiritual quality of surrendering and really, um, feeling that smallness, and feeling that sense of humility, and connection, and cleansing also, which is there.

Emma: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I think just the element of water, there's so much to sort of explore there and you know, it's like you, you know, mentioned just sort of this idea that we have all of these elements within us as well, and it's just a matter of, you know, drawing those connections. And, you know, I think similarly we have all these, you know, themes that I call out in the book as well.

Like we have, you know, some element of, you know, the mountain's creativity in us. We have, you know, the ocean surrender and it's all just a matter of, you know, connecting to that in your outside world, but also finding that within. And you know, I think that there's, there's a lot of, you know, personal growth that can happen when you sort of approach it from a landscape lens.

Ananta: Yeah, yeah, totally. And I also loved the Forest and Trees chapter because with my organization, the ancient way, as part of our logo, we have a tree. And a tree has been so symbolic to me of what we're creating as far as something that can have deep roots into the earth so that it can withstand our time, and really go on to serve people for a long time, even after we're all gone.

So, I love how you talk about trees and forest bathing as really therapeutic practices for developing vitality as well as patience and wisdom. And this idea of like what it means to go into the woods, which is like such a spiritual exploration. And going kind of into the unknown to be able to discover our deepest treasures. And how it can also be scary.

Just like the oceans can be scary, but in a different way. So, could you talk a little bit about what it means to go into the woods or into the forest and connect with the trees?

Emma: Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, I think that that sort of metaphor of the tree is so beautiful. And again, there are so many parallels, I think, between trees, you know, and they're sort of form and structure and even our own, you know, bodies.

I write in the book about this idea of fractal patterns. It's just basically just like a repeating pattern that keeps getting smaller and smaller. So, a tree is a really nice example. Um, but we also have, you know, if you think about the patterns of our lungs, it's sort of similar. And I was even talking to a neuroscientist recently, and she was saying that she, like, conceived of thoughts as also having that pattern of, you know, they have this root source and they also have these different branches that we sort of follow.

But it's really just about getting down to that root source where, you know, the healing can really happen. So, again, I think it—there's a really beautiful opportunity to just sort of find what, where those parallels are. Um, and find our sort of rootedness, you know, within ourselves. I think, you know, the idea of wisdom came up in that chapter just because I think trees are such a source of just, you know, they can be so old and just like have stood still for so long. And yeah, I think one woman who I interviewed called trees, you know, the great meditators, which I thought was just a beautiful analogy. So, I think that there's just so much to connect to in forests and you know, forest bathing is such a fun practice because it sort of just forces you to slow down and really take in your environment when you do. You know, you are surrounded by trees which are so visually appealing.

They also have a beautiful smell, you know, the sounds of the leaves. Like there's just really an opportunity to engage so many senses in the forest. So, I, um, that was a fun, that was a fun one to work on.

Ananta: Yeah. Yeah. That's so cool. It's so interesting to think about. And how would people do that, even if they don't live in a place with a forest necessarily?

Emma: Yeah, absolutely. So, forest bathing—I also should have said if anyone's unfamiliar and is picturing like a bath and a forest, um, forest bathing is essentially just going into the forest with the intention of, you know, tuning into your environment and moving through the space very slowly and bathing, you know, in the sort of sensory experience. So, um, it was, you know, it started in Japan. It's called Shinrin-yoku in Japanese, the practice. But, um, the way that it sort of presented is that, you know, you walk through the forest and a guide would lead you. And they would offer what they call invitations that, which I think is a beautiful way to put it, but they'd essentially invite people to do these different practices that allow them to tune into the environment in a new way.

So, I think a beautiful example—and one that you don't necessarily need to be in a forest to do, you could do it anywhere outside—is just to close your eyes and sort of imagine that you're in a snow globe. This is an invitation I did when I was doing forest bathing a few years ago. Um, but imagine that you're in a snow globe and then close your eyes and picture the sound that is furthest away and is like hitting the glass of the globe and just latch onto that.

And then you can, you know, do the same thing. Close your eyes and then picture the sound or tune into the sound that is the closest to you. Um, and this is something I do pretty often in nature now. And I just find it really beautiful for just hearing those different layers of noise, I think is so unique. Um, and I just love that idea of, you know, hitting the glass. Think it's a really cool conceptual way to tune into your environment. So, yeah, you can, you know, have a sensory experience wherever you are in nature, but I think the forest is just especially rich in things to hear and see and touch.

Ananta: Wow, that's so interesting. I was doing that while you were talking about it. It's a really, really interesting practice. I'm sure in a place like New York it would make it even more interesting cause there are so many noises. So, it's like, which is the furthest away and which one is right here?

Emma: Yeah. I don't know if I'd do it in the city, but it could be fun.

Ananta: That's funny. Um, that's so cool. I love that idea. The snow. You talk about ice and snow. And we talked about silence. And resilience intuitively makes sense because it is challenging to live in a snowed-in environment. But could you talk about this idea of a reward, because you have a reward also as a keyword for the ice and snow chapter?

Emma: Yeah, I mean, I, again, I think it goes back to the idea we were discussing with surf therapy, but just, you know, conquering a sort of fear is so inherently rewarding. Um, for that snow chapter, I spoke with folks who, you know, I spoke with a snowboarder who does like backcountry, you know, sort of snowboarding stuff and just talked to her about… I think I went into it with the idea of like, oh, this woman must love the cold.

She must love the snow. It doesn't bother her. But you know, I went into these interviews thinking that, and then, you know, everyone would say like, no, I find it uncomfortable too, you know? But what keeps me going back is really just that feeling of reward on the other side and just, you know, really feeling that discomfort sitting in it and then continuing to do what you have to do. You know, snowing down, skiing down the mountain, or, uh, what have you.

So, I found that to be just like kind of, I don't know. It was like permission giving almost just to say to myself, like, "okay, everyone knows that this is uncomfortable to get out on a snowy day, but just go out prepared and sort of, you know, see what reward is on the other side." Um, but sort of a nice way to reframe it other than like, "ugh, I hate the snow," and you know, "it's just not for me."

Emma: So, yeah.

Ananta: Yeah, yeah. This is also an interesting practice idea that you gave about journaling on the snow's themes. So, I found that really interesting that you were asking people to consider what opinions or feelings have you held onto for so long that they've frozen over the years and become hardened, fixed, and solid?

That's a really interesting question. And even where in your life do you feel stillness? Do you perceive this stillness as constructive or destructive? And then, even reflecting on how weather affects your mood and what your favorite type is, and what it isn't, and why it bothers you. So, that's really.

Like an interesting invitation to connect at the emotional level with the seasons and with the, uh, idea of the natural world and the cold also.

Emma: Yeah. Yeah. So, like I had forgotten some of those prompts. I'm going to have to go back and read myself. I can use it right now. Um, yeah, that's great. I mean, yeah, again, I think I ended… I included every, or some journaling prompts in every chapter.

Again, to just sort of, you know, go with this idea that there's something of each landscape to be found in all of us. And just teasing that out can be interesting, you know, to think about. What landscapes are you inherently attracted to, and do you feel comfortable in, and why? And which one makes you feel a little nervous and a little, you know, less comfortable?

And, and why is that? Um, I think that can be a cool practice.

Ananta: Yeah. Yeah, for sure. And I love how you've also integrated the hero's journey into the exploration on deserts and dry lands. My book, The Way of the Goddess is definitely like a hero's journey, and it breaks you down and then builds you back up is how you described the deserts. And just this.

Kind of, uh, archetypal hero's journey. So, that also really made me connect more with deserts as being a fascinating spiritual place. And you talk also about the phoenix rising from the ashes. Can you just go into that idea of transformation that we get from the desert?

Emma: Yeah, absolutely. So, I feel like, um, you know, the desert, I think, broadly, generally speaking, is a pretty like, unforgiving environment in that there aren't that many, you know, resources. Not a lot of rainfall if it's a dry desert.

Ananta: Right.

Emma: Um, and it just sort of doesn't provide some of the creature comforts of other landscapes, and that is an obstacle. Um, and I think that, you know, that's a reason that a lot of hero's journeys through literature take place in desert environments. You know, again, there is that sort of parallel of, you know, life in general just stripping you down and not giving you the resources you need to, to thrive and how you handle that situation, I think can be very, very telling. Um, so I forget where my train of thought was going with this, but—oh, so I think there's that element of desert, but then something that I love to think about too, and that I find so beautiful and amazing, is just desert plants and how they've found a way to just survive and thrive through this, you know, environment that really gives them absolutely nothing, you know,

But, you know, think about something like a succulent stores water in its roots so that it can withstand those, you know, dry environments. And you just sort of adapt to these new ways of being and living to, you know, really thrive in the environment that you're in.

And I found that really just like inspiring in a cool way to just navigate a desert, or any inhospitable environment. Sort of look for signs of life and think about how, you know, those things have just, you know, managed to survive through time and how, like, cool and inspiring that is.

Ananta: I love that. That's so amazing. And then, uh, let's move into chapter seven, where you've talked about transcendence. And again, there's a parallel with my book as well, because in chapter seven of The Way of the Goddess, it's transcending trauma with wisdom.

Emma: Wow!

Ananta: So, then you've talked about rivers and streams, and my name, Ripa, is actually Latin for riverbank.

Emma: Wow.

Ananta: So, I know that this is definitely an important landscape for me, and I loved reading this chapter to connect with this idea of transcendence and the idea of the river having its goal to merge with the ocean. And to become one with the ocean. And that's so symbolic of the whole spiritual journey of really going beyond our kind of notions of separateness, and distinction, and individuality to merge with the whole and to go back to our source.

And I love this idea of like the riverbank or the shores of the ocean, even being as that calm place outside of the flow of emotions, and things that we experience and have to ultimately transcend on the spiritual journey. And you've used the three keywords here for both rivers and streams being about cycles, direction, and transcendence.

So, could you elaborate on these themes and how the rivers are helping us with these?

Emma: Yeah, absolutely. So, I think rivers are just a really unique, you know, place for many of the reasons that you know, just said. They sort of exist to converge into this larger entity. And you know, I think that when we're standing by the riverside, I think, it can just be powerful to think about how, you know, that water is continuing to move forward and, you know, sort of trusting that it'll get to its destination at some point.

You know, I think there's just, you know, obviously a very clear metaphor there with, you know, the journey and, you know, the journey through life and the journey to a destination and ultimate, an ultimate end.

Um, and a lot of the writing that I did for that chapter was actually about this idea of like, returning to a river and going back to a river again and again. Um, that was something that came up a lot for me. Just, you know, again, maybe it does have to do with that, that journey and that revisiting, but I.

I think that that alone can be a really beautiful practice. Just to go back to a river that you might have had an experience with, you know, in your youth or, you know, years ago. And, you know, consider how you've changed since you were last there. Like how your journey has shifted, how you've evolved and, um, I don't know.

I think there's just something really powerful about sitting by the river, which also tends to be like a very fertile ground, which I think is, is telling. But yeah, just using it as a means of reflection I think can be really special. It can unlock things. At least for me, it has that I don't know if I would've, I would've gotten before.

Ananta: Yeah. Yeah. I love that. And that's… that's so interesting. And just this idea of transcendence also that comes with it, I feel, is so fascinating. Um, and you also talk about asking the river what it can teach you as a practice, which is really cool. What kinds of things have you learned from the river?

Emma: Um, I think there's just—excuse me.

I think it's a lot about trust, like sort of trusting. You know, the process and continuing to move forward, whether there's a rock in your way, you know, physically or metaphorically. Um, but yeah, just having that element of like knowing your direction and following that is so powerful. And I feel like that's sort of, you know, a huge part of life that can be very challenging, but just having that sort of resolute direction, um, I think, is so important.

Ananta: I love that. That's so interesting. And then in chapter eight, you talk about cities and built environments, which seems, like, kind of paradoxical to the idea of returning to nature, but you talk about the benefits actually to the nature of having cities and how cities are also offering us respite, reciprocity, and humanity.

So, could you talk a little bit about how cities and built environments can be places where we can still return to nature and reconnect and appreciate nature? And I love that it went to New York City because I've also lived in New York City pretty recently while I was writing my last book. And uh, it seems like the most remote place away from nature.

But you also live there. So, I would love to hear your thoughts about the role of places like New York City when we're talking about returning to nature.

Emma: Yeah, absolutely. It's sort of like the great irony that I wrote this book. Um, I wrote it during—I started working on the book in March of 2020 with COVID.

Ananta: Wow.

Emma: You know, going into it, I had these grand ideas to travel and, you know, go to different remote landscapes as I was writing, to really feel into these places. And then I ended up not being able to do that, obviously. But, you know, I think through the process, it sort of forced me to find these places in my place, which ended up being, I think, incredibly valuable for me.

And, you know, it really changed the way that I see and engage with the city. Um, but yeah, I think anyone who lives in a city environment can really find elements of all these different landscapes in their immediate vicinity. You know, depending on where you live, you might have access to a small pocket park or you know, you might be able to see a few street trees. Or just sort of finding, again, those like paired down examples, I think can be, so it can be really rewarding.

Um, and it also just ties back to this idea that… in from, like, a conservation perspective, I don't want to encourage people to like, feel like they need to take a transatlantic flight or what have you to get to nature. You know, I think there's just a lot of value in finding that wherever you might live, and it's ultimately a lot gentler on the planet if we're not all just running to, you know, some pristine place.

So, you know, I think that there's real beauty in finding the nature wherever you live and. Again, going back to the idea that like humans really are nature. So, our creation, you know, our concrete buildings, as ugly as they may be, but also, I don't know, they can be considered maybe an expression of nature and you know, there's beauty to be found there too.

But you know, I think, there's also just the idea that like enjoying nature with other people and being surrounded by other people can be, you know, really special on its own. Because it, you know, sort of, it's, I think it disarms us a lot of time. You know, if we are able to get out with other people, take a walk outside versus, I don't know, have a conversation indoors.

It just, I think it brings down a lot of barriers, um, for reasons unknown. But I think it just, people feel more comfortable outside a lot of the time.

Ananta: Wow. Yeah. That's so amazing. I love that. Wow! So, this has been such an amazing journey through each of the chapters of your book and the natural landscapes, and I think you've interviewed quite a lot of experts also, to inform each chapter of your book and how we can connect with these different landscapes.

So, where do people, uh, get your book and also just learn more about you and keep up with you?

Emma: Yeah. Um, well, thank you for guiding the journey. I, your questions were so, um, yeah, they were like really thoughtful, so thank you. Um, but in terms of where to get the book, wherever books are sold, it should be, you know, online.

And if it's not in your local bookstore, I would love it if you asked. I love being in bookstores. Um, so wherever books are sold. Uh, my website is my name, Emma Loewe. L-O-E-W-E. Dot com and my Instagram is at E-M-M-A-L-O-E-W-E. So, just know, um, that you can keep up with my writing on Mind Body Green. Um, and yeah, those are the main, the main places.

Um, and my first book, which we have the same publisher, which I love. Book sisters. Um, it's called The Spirit Almanac. That's a bit of a, like, more a sort of spiritual self-care angle than um—it's like a cute one too.

Ananta: Amazing. Yeah, I would love to read that book. It's been on my reading list for some time, so I'll definitely have to check it out.

Because especially considering we are published by the same imprint of Penguin, so that's really, really fun. Well, thank you so much again, Emma, for coming on the podcast and sharing with us. Is there any last bit of wisdom that you would like to share with our listeners, especially as it relates to returning to nature?

Emma: Yeah, I mean, I would just encourage people to get outside today and, you know, see where it leads them. Um, in more ways than one. Um, but thank you so much for having me, Ananta. This was fun. I always love chatting with you.

Ananta: Likewise. Thank you so much.

Check Out a Special Excerpt of Return to Nature that Includes Grounding Activities from the Book to Support You in Getting Spiritually Grounded

Start your journey with Return to Nature to get more spiritually grounded with inspiring grounding activities you can try regardless of your location or how much time you have available in the day. Click here to check out a special excerpt provided by Emma Loewe for The Ancient Way.